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Russ: This is The Business Makers show, heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com, and it's featured guest time on the show this morning, and we got a hot, hot topic this morning. We're going to be talking about being a survivor in this downturn, being an organization survivor, because my guest is Dr. Don Minnick, principal with Interpersonal Skills Laboratory. Don, welcome to The Business Makers Show.
Don: Thanks, Russ.
Russ: Why don't we start by you telling us about Interpersonal Skills Laboratory?
Don: Well, Russ, Interpersonal Skills Lab is basically an affiliation of organization consultants. All of us have independent practices and we get together from time to time to partner on bigger projects.
Russ: Okay, what kind of projects do you take a look at?
Don: The kind of consulting work we do is primary focused around leadership development, leadership training, management development, management training.
Russ: Okay.
Don: We do training design for organizations. In other words, we take their core issues and help them design some programs around that to do the kind of training they need.
Russ: Okay, sounds pretty interesting, so how did your organization survivor expertise evolve?
Don: Well, Russ, we've been doing this kind of consulting work for a long period of time, about 30 years. And over that period of time a couple of things were going on. One was that as economic cycles go, there have always been periods of downsizing, periods where outsourcing was a business strategy, where organizations shrunk to meet the needs that they had.
Russ: Oh yeah.
Don: During that same period of time, organizations were changing their structure a little bit from very vertically silo kind structured organizations that were functionally independent, to an organization that was much leaner, meaning it had fewer employees, much more horizontally structured, team based, a different kind of organization, basically.
Russ: Okay, okay.
Don: Now, during that period of time, a lot of the people that we were working with in these organizations, when they came to our training programs, they were interested in the content that we were providing, of course, but they had some other things on their mind very often. And those other things were looking at these changes in their organizations and trying to understand what they needed to do as individuals to be considered indispensable in their organization. In other words, how can they keep their jobs and how can they be sure that they're going to keep their jobs.
Russ: Okay, and these are the leaders that you are consulting with, were concerned about this, okay.
Don: These were leaders. These were participants in our program.
Russ: Okay.
Don: These were people from individual contributors to managers and director level type folks.
Russ: Okay, and these could also be people that were actually deciding on laying off other people?
Don: Absolutely.
Russ: Okay, all right, so it sounds like the real world.
Don: Absolutely.
Russ: Okay.
Don: Now, what we did was, since there was such an interest among our participants in those kinds of issues, we initially just scheduled some offline discussion time for them, so that they could talk with each other about their experiences, about what they noticed, about the kind of skill sets that they thought were important.
Russ: Right.
Don: We listened to that, tried to capture as much of that data as we could because we had a sense that this was a real important issue to be addressed. As time went on, we decided to gather a little bit more data in a more rigorous fashion. We began to do some structured interviewing of these same folks. And again, these were individuals who had maybe survived a downsizing period. These were also managers who were in the position of deciding who to keep in their resized organization.
Russ: Okay. Okay.
Don: So they had some real good data about how to do that. In our surveys we ask them basically three questions. We ask them list the personal characteristics, as you understand them, of those employees who will be the most valuable in your organization.
Russ: Okay.
Don: Another one was, if you're a manager who's been involved in hiring staff for your resized organization, what did you look for?
Russ: Okay.
Don: The third thing we asked was, give us as specific an example as you can of a behavior of somebody that you have personal connection with that you feel is a real indispensable part of your organization. In other words, describe the skills that you're seeing.
Russ: Wow, so I guess once you've captured quite a few of those answers, you have a pretty valuable database?
Don: We do and we're continuing to collect that information, and surprisingly enough, the content of that information is not changing a whole lot as the years go forward. What is considered to be important in being indispensable in your organization is the same today as it was five years ago, ten years ago.
Russ: Wow. So we're poised to hear what that is now. I would think, with you having done this through other cycles, you got to admit that this cycle is probably deeper, bigger, and badder than any one we've been through.
Don: Yeah, it sure seems to be and all the indicators point in that direction.
Russ: Okay, well, I'm real interested in hearing what you discovered, and I'm sure our audience is too, and we're going to do that after this. I'm talking with Dr. Don Minnick, principal at Interpersonal Skills Laboratory, and we're talking about being the organization survivor. We'll be back after this. You're listening to The Business Makers Show heard here and online at thebusinesmakers.com.
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Russ: This is The Business Makers Show heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com, and continuing on with Dr. Don Minnick. We're talking about being an organization survivor and Don, you had just mentioned that over the years, many years, you've been surveying these three key questions about being an organization survivor. And you had mentioned the attributes necessary to be a survivor have been consistent throughout that time, so why don't you share those with us?
Don: What we did as we gathered this information, was really set about to put together a model that would pull this information together in a way that people could understand it and use it to help make themselves indispensable in their environment.
Russ: Or if you're the decision maker, to make sure that you chose the right person to keep.
Don: Exactly, so.
Russ: Okay.
Don: So, a couple of things fell out right away. The first thing was-and you've mentioned that this is called organization survivor-and we've taken off on that concept a little bit to talk about survival instincts and survival skills, and those are two different things. What fell out right away in this model was that there were two basic value choices that we're calling survival instincts.
Russ: Okay.
Don: And those two things are this, individual initiative and capacity for collaboration with others. Now what that means is, individual initiative, obviously, it's somebody who sees what needs to be done in an organization and sets about to do it without having to be directed to do so. Capacity for collaboration is somebody who has kind of a personal orientation and tries to involve other people when appropriate in the kind of work they're doing.
Russ: Okay, well that does seem to make sense. I mean-if you're the type of worker that always just sits back and waits to be told something, you don't have personal initiative, and you're probably not going to be a survivor, and collaboration seem important these days in the way that we do business.
Don: Absolutely, and we're calling these instincts for a specific reason, and that is that we think that everybody has the capacity for both of these capabilities.
Russ: Okay, okay.
Don: Now, they come more naturally to some than to others, but they are things that are certainly in our repertoire of skills, all of us.
Russ: Okay, okay, so if you're a person that they don't come to naturally, you'd still kick in and develop a capacity for collaboration?
Don: Absolutely.
Russ: Cool, all right.
Don: Now, as we gathered this data, a huge percentage of our respondents, something like 80% to 85%, mentioned either individual initiative or capacity for collaboration as being an important capability. Organizations really like people who show initiative. Organizations really like people who can collaborate with other folks.
Russ: Okay.
Don: But the most important thing that we found was that organizations really like, folks who have those two capabilities in balance.
Russ: Okay.
Don: In other words, people who can show initiative, take initiative, and people who can collaborate with others at the same time. It's very important.
Russ: Okay, yeah, because I guess personal initiative doesn't have anything to do really with collaboration, and there might be people that have personal initiative that don't collaborate.
Don: In some ways, they almost seem the opposite, one from the other.
Russ: Right, right, so the ability to do both of those and have them in balance is real key?
Don: True.
Russ: Okay.
Don: Well, kind of coming from those sort of core capabilities, those instincts, we found four other sets of skills that we're calling survival skills.
Russ: Okay.
Don: And those things are mental agility, personal visibility, boundary spanning, and a set of skills we're calling action learning.
Russ: Okay.
Don: Now, I want to make sure that I make this point clear. This is not a theory that we developed. It's not a theory at all, rather it's a, it's a set of observations, and it's a set of observations by people who are in a unique position to know. Those are people who have either survived a downsizing themselves or people who have been in a position of hiring other folks to remain in their downsized organization.
Russ: Okay, okay.
Don: So, this is real life information, and what our job has been is to try and craft this together, this information that clients provided, into a model that is usable, that's practical, that people can apply in their own organizations.
Russ: Well, I would encourage all of our listeners to take notes in this because, oh boy, it's challenging times. So tell us a little bit about these other four. Mental agility, what do you mean by that?
Don: Well, mental agility is what the name implies, and sort of an analogy that I've used in the past is this. All of us at one point or another have had a ten speed bicycle. I would ask folks how many of those ten speeds do you use? And people will say, "Oh, I don't know, two, three maybe at most." Well, people who are mentally agile, have a ten speed bike, they use all ten speeds. They get all their gears going. It also implies some specific things. Obviously quickness in thought and action, that's what mental agility is kind of all about. That in some ways has been dictated by the way the organizations have changed over the last few years.
Russ: Right.
Don: We don't have time to wait around and do the laborious work that we used to. We just don't have time. In an instant world, in an Internet connected world, you have to be quick both in thought and action.
Russ: Cool, so that all falls into the mental agility category.
Don: Mental agility is one of the most important skill sets that we found.
Russ: Okay, let's talk about personal visibility. That means having everybody in your company know you and see what you're doing, and know about you, and see what your work ethic is?
Don: That's exactly right, and there are some of us who have labored under the misassumption over the years that if we just did a good job, kept our head down and did our work, we were going to be rewarded by our organization. Fact of the matter is, no matter how competent you are, if your competence is invisible, it doesn't do you any good.
Russ: All right.
Don: Doesn't do your organization any good, doesn't do you any good.
Russ: All right.
Don: There are two aspects to personal visibility, two main aspects. One is obviously, somebody is visible in their organization when they are known by people in their organization, and of course most importantly, they're visible when they're known as competent, so people who show personal visibility in an organization are people who are basically the go-to people in the organization. They're often the people that everybody knows. They're the people that everybody talks to the most. They're the people that go to when they need information when they have some difficulty that they want to resolve.
Russ: Okay.
Don: Now, this doesn't have anything to do with organizational hierarchy because you can be a person of high visibility at any level in an organization.
Russ: Let's say somebody's listening right now and they know, oh, I don't rate high in the personal visibility category. Is that something you can change?
Don: Absolutely, and that's one of the beauties of this particular model, in my opinion, is that, as I said earlier, although these skill sets come easier to some folks, our hunch is that they are certainly learnable skills for everybody.
Russ: Okay.
Don: And so part of what we're doing with this model is not only helping people to assess where they fall in each of these areas-and we have an assessment instrument to do that-but that is tied developmentally to specific things that they can say or do to increase their skill levels in each one of these areas.
Russ: Cool, okay. We've boundary spanning and action learning to go, and we're going to do that after this. We're talking to Dr. Don Minnick on the subject is being an organization survivor. We'll have more with him after this. You're listening to The Business Makers Show heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com.
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Russ: This is The Business Makers Show heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com, and continuing on with Dr. Don Minnick, and talking about being an organization survivor. We've covered all but boundary spanning and action learning. Let's talk a little bit about boundary spanning. What is that?
Don: Boundary spanning is pretty much as the name implies, and that is somebody who can reach across the functional boundaries of an organization and make connections all over the organization in a way that's going to be helpful in accumulating knowledge, gathering people together who need to be together, and working on projects jointly. So if visibility is about other people knowing you, boundary spanning is about you knowing other people, and knowing the right people, the kind of people who have the information that, pooled together, helps the organization work most effectively.
Russ: This is so cool. I've got some big company experience as well, and boundary spanning is not something that's encouraged or taught, but there's always some people that seem to be able to do it very well. It's real interesting that it popped up on this survey as being a talent that's, that's very desirable.
Don: Yeah, exactly so, and as I think as a lot of functional areas disappear in organizations, those kind of rigid functional boundaries, that skill of being able to reach across and interact effectively with people who are different from you in terms of background, technical expertise, and things of that nature, becomes real important.
Russ: Okay, and then the last one-and for our listeners, we're going to summarize this after it's over so you can take notes-but the last one is action learning. Now, tell us about that.
Don: Action learning is really the skill of helping an organization learn from its own process. What someone with a skill of action learning does is that they can assume a participant observer role. Now, what that means is somebody who can be actively participating, a full contributor in their technical area, but somebody who is also able to take a figuratively step back from time to time, look at the larger organization, and look at not only what we're doing, but how we're doing it. Very important skill, and there are organizations that have terms to capture that. Getting the 35,000 foot view is a good example of that skill.
Russ: Meaning that they're not so myopic that they're just on their area. That they can see how they're affecting everybody else and what the organization as a whole needs to do.
Don: Exactly so.
Russ: Cool, okay. So all of these points that you've just shared with us, six total, consistently came out from all these business participants that were right in the middle of making these types of decisions.
Don: That's correct.
Russ: Okay, and they were first these survival instincts. Personal initiative and capacity for collaboration, ah, those are key. And then in the other four categories, mental agility, now that was the one where you want to use all ten speeds?
Don: That's correct.
Russ: And you got to be sort of fast these days, too, right?
Don: Quickness in thought and action is a real important component of that.
Russ: Okay. And then personal visibility, being visible to others in the company, and competent. Did I get that one right?
Don: Exactly right.
Russ: Okay, and then the last two, boundary spanning and action learning. This is cool stuff, so what are you going to do with all of this expertise that you've developed and gathered?
Don: We're trying a couple of things, Russ. We obviously are offering programs to organizations to sort of help them use this model in their own work and tailor this model to their own organization. But we're also writing a series of books that's going to capture this information because it has application in a couple of different ways. Clearly there's some application for folks who are in the midst of an organization that is being downsized, or that that is on the horizon, and this gives them the information that they can use to make sure that they're one of the ones that stays and not one of the ones that go.
Russ: Right.
Don: The second thing is, for a lot of people the worse has already happened, they've lost their job. And they're in the process of trying to find another place to be. This has some real useful information in helping people position their resume, position their interviewing skills, in such a way that they are speaking directly to what hiring managers have told us they're looking for.
Russ: Well, it almost seems like it could also be just a great constitution for a long term strategy for an employee to think.
Don: That's a great point, and as a matter of fact, we've had some managers come to us and say, "Listen, can you help us understand how to keep these good people that we already have in our organization? How can we let them know that they are being valued, that their skills are important, that we can keep them, so that they're not looking around to leave this organization because they're folks that we need.
Russ: Okay, well, let's just say that we've got somebody that's listening right now that wants to get in touch with you. How do they get in touch with you, Don?
Don: Well, I think the best way, Russ, is to go directly to the web site. It's www.InterpersonalSkillsLab.com.
Russ: Okay, really appreciate you, uh, spending time with us and sharing with us this very revealing data.
Don: Thanks, Russ.
Russ: You bet. We've been talking to Dr. Don Minnick, principal with Interpersonal Skills Laboratory, a survivor expert. And you've been listening The Business Makers Show heard here and online at thebusinessmakers.com.